Horse Racing Strategies Megathread
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@ian-parry said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
The coding of an automated stake management and strategy monitoring system sounds interesting as yeah im spending a great deal of time setting up bots and recording results. What does that involve? is it something that your automation provides?
I'm a software developer by trade so I've programmed my bots from scratch. But I believe I remember @John-Folan mentioning once that bfbotmanager provides this feature.
It does indeed.
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The coding of an automated stake management and strategy monitoring system sounds interesting as yeah im spending a great deal of time setting up bots and recording results. What does that involve? is it something that your automation provides?
I'm a software developer by trade so I've programmed my bots from scratch. But I believe I remember @John-Folan mentioning once that bfbotmanager provides this feature.
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@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
Also I suggest everyone looks at their strategies. If you have variables on the day that can change like runner numbers. Especially runner numbers in fact. Set up a separate version of the strategy (I call mine qualifiers) with runner numbers or going or whatever can change deleted and use that one to get your selections from. Then filter runner numbers etc in your bot software.
Non runners and going can change massively on any given day. This meant I was getting loads of different results. This is a simple workaround.
i know it sound simple but that actually sounds complex and i dont have the time as i work. I maybe will have to look at it at the weekend but i wouldnt know where to start.
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@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
Ouch. Something is massively wrong there then. Is your bot sometimes doing more than one favourite in a race if there is a las second steam or drift? I had an issue with that.
I restricted the strategy to 1 selection per race(so it only placed a back bet on one favourite regardless of whether it steamed or drifted after).
I then as well as 10’seconds out added the race status had to be at the post or going behind. So you got the race favourite more often than not. It still drifts to second favourite sometimes but some win and some lose so it balances out and I don’t stress about it too much.
I’ve asked Adam to add a price ranking at time of entry filter as that will eliminate all of these problems on numerous strategies plus it will be easier for people to
match the software selections.No only fires on one selection which is the favourite in the race so for example in the 1418 at Newcastle it's the favourite 10 seconds before 1418. unfortunately with betAngel you can't do it to at post status, I can ask the forum if that’s possible. I can change it to 30 seconds after the race starts but if you get a race that starts on time then you might have an issue with your bet being matched. perhaps I need to then just ditch the strategy and focus on other ones.
Bet Angel I have found is useless for filtering. It’s got sub standard filters for this type of trading. The only thing it’s ok at is if you have specific selections that only need runner numbers or odds filters.
Great for scalping because of the speed though.
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Also I suggest everyone looks at their strategies. If you have variables on the day that can change like runner numbers. Especially runner numbers in fact. Set up a separate version of the strategy (I call mine qualifiers) with runner numbers or going or whatever can change deleted and use that one to get your selections from. Then filter runner numbers etc in your bot software.
Non runners and going can change massively on any given day. This meant I was getting loads of different results. This is a simple workaround.
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@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
Ouch. Something is massively wrong there then. Is your bot sometimes doing more than one favourite in a race if there is a las second steam or drift? I had an issue with that.
I restricted the strategy to 1 selection per race(so it only placed a back bet on one favourite regardless of whether it steamed or drifted after).
I then as well as 10’seconds out added the race status had to be at the post or going behind. So you got the race favourite more often than not. It still drifts to second favourite sometimes but some win and some lose so it balances out and I don’t stress about it too much.
I’ve asked Adam to add a price ranking at time of entry filter as that will eliminate all of these problems on numerous strategies plus it will be easier for people to
match the software selections.No only fires on one selection which is the favourite in the race so for example in the 1418 at Newcastle it's the favourite 10 seconds before 1418. unfortunately with betAngel you can't do it to at post status, I can ask the forum if that’s possible. I can change it to 30 seconds after the race starts but if you get a race that starts on time then you might have an issue with your bet being matched. perhaps I need to then just ditch the strategy and focus on other ones.
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Ouch. Something is massively wrong there then. Is your bot sometimes doing more than one favourite in a race if there is a las second steam or drift? I had an issue with that.
I restricted the strategy to 1 selection per race(so it only placed a back bet on one favourite regardless of whether it steamed or drifted after).
I then as well as 10’seconds out added the race status had to be at the post or going behind. So you got the race favourite more often than not. It still drifts to second favourite sometimes but some win and some lose so it balances out and I don’t stress about it too much.
I’ve asked Adam to add a price ranking at time of entry filter as that will eliminate all of these problems on numerous strategies plus it will be easier for people to
match the software selections. -
@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
The backs have done ok tho
The backs have done ok tho - do you mean the back the fav on sat, mon, tues?
Yes. They are a few points up on my software from the last couple of weeks.
im -24 from 5th nov, this is what i mean the download isnt enough, there needs to be an explantion of how to place the trades as that could be the issue why my results are so different to the software
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@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
The backs have done ok tho
The backs have done ok tho - do you mean the back the fav on sat, mon, tues?
Yes. They are a few points up on my software from the last couple of weeks.
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@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
The backs have done ok tho
The backs have done ok tho - do you mean the back the fav on sat, mon, tues?
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@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
liability rather than stake
Yeah I had a few issues with the short odds where the bot kept firing when the odds were so low but that seems to have been solved. I’m not anywhere near that points tally but its getting better in testing. Not seen the martin beaten favourites strategy is that like the martin lay shorts odds strategy?
Yeah I think the issue with the pace backs is the massive variation that's why I kinda ditched it too, it sounded like your October was very much a rollercoaster. I suppose it's OK when you're testing on small stakes but I can imagine that if you up the stakes on that you could have a few hairy days.
Yeah that's my biggest problem too is that the results that come from the software are very different from my own and I don't know whether that's an issue with my bots or possibly I'm not following the rules correctly? that's why would be good if perhaps not only is there a filter for the strategy but maybe some information about how it should be traded?
For example I think I'm doing the back the favourites on Saturday, Monday and Tuesday incorrectly as I started placing a back on the selection that was shown on the daily selections, and then in conversation with yourself you said that it needed to be the race selection. So essentially whoever is the favourite in the race - but to be honest both variations have been really quite poor and when I look at the software it massively different to the totals that I have.
Good call on the liability rather than stake for higher odds, how do you tend to do that? Like a flat liability to a % if your bank per trade?Yes on the liability.
You can get damn close with software. The problem with favourites is they still seem to change even a few seconds out. I’ve asked Adam for a filter to help with this in the software. The backs have done ok tho? I added a filter in Bfbot to place bets when going behind or at the post as well as 10 seconds out. That’s got me closer.
Bfbotmanager gets you closer than bet Angel. Much better conditions.
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@ian-parry said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
coding an automated stake management and strategy monitoring system
The coding of an automated stake management and strategy monitoring system sounds interesting as yeah im spending a great deal of time setting up bots and recording results. What does that involve? is it something that your automation provides?
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@john-folan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
liability rather than stake
Yeah I had a few issues with the short odds where the bot kept firing when the odds were so low but that seems to have been solved. I’m not anywhere near that points tally but its getting better in testing. Not seen the martin beaten favourites strategy is that like the martin lay shorts odds strategy?
Yeah I think the issue with the pace backs is the massive variation that's why I kinda ditched it too, it sounded like your October was very much a rollercoaster. I suppose it's OK when you're testing on small stakes but I can imagine that if you up the stakes on that you could have a few hairy days.
Yeah that's my biggest problem too is that the results that come from the software are very different from my own and I don't know whether that's an issue with my bots or possibly I'm not following the rules correctly? that's why would be good if perhaps not only is there a filter for the strategy but maybe some information about how it should be traded?
For example I think I'm doing the back the favourites on Saturday, Monday and Tuesday incorrectly as I started placing a back on the selection that was shown on the daily selections, and then in conversation with yourself you said that it needed to be the race selection. So essentially whoever is the favourite in the race - but to be honest both variations have been really quite poor and when I look at the software it massively different to the totals that I have.
Good call on the liability rather than stake for higher odds, how do you tend to do that? Like a flat liability to a % if your bank per trade? -
@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
This is a genuine question for everyone who's got the horse trading software? Is anyone out there making actual money on it? I've been testing for nearly four months now using about four or five strategies and hasn't been any that have been consistently profitable and most would have lost quite a bit of money (don’t worry I’m on low stakes). I see there is a lot of information in the chat about strategies that people have been tweaking and showing the backtesting which is great, but are the actually working in a live testing environment? I understand with any new strategy you need to test it for three to four months I totally get that, but sooner or later the software has to show some form of value would you not disagree? And if none of the strategies are profitable then where is the value? Even the pace lays which had a good month last month are having an absolutely dreadful month this month.
So I'm interested to see if anyone is actually making money and on what strategy they are because maybe I'm just looking at the wrong strategies? Another example will be this recent back the favourite on Saturdays, Mondays and Tuesdays, now granted I've only been testing it for two weeks now but it's on like minus 24 points which is some drawdown.
I hope this isn't perceived as negative because it's not meant to be I'm just genuinely interested if anyone is making money in a live environment and it doesn't matter even if their one pound stakes or 50p stakes have they got any strategies that are making some form of profit?
Hi Nick. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you at the moment. I'm running about 5 strategies 1 of which is showing a small net gain, the others are at a loss, although I don't think I'm at the stage yet that I'm ready to bin them. Personally I don't think 3 to 4 months is enough - especially if they don't get more than a couple of selections a day.
What I found was that even though I had the strategy automated, I was spending too much time tracking the results and could only manage around 4-5 strategies. This is not enough in my opinion - unless you get lucky. Some strategies will have positive results over the past few years by natural variance - even if they are not intrinsically profitable. Many of these will be the ones we stumble across in the software as we discard strategies that lose money. So I suspect a pretty high proportion of strategies that we find in the software that appear profitable in the software (and were profitable in the past couple of years) will not continue to show profit.
I've been spending most of my time recently coding an automated stake management and strategy monitoring system. I've just finished that and I now spend zero time on stake management and result tracking. This will give me the ability to run dozens of strategies at once - hopefully increasing the chances of finding genuinely profitable ones. Over the next couple of months I intend to spend a lot of time in the software looking for new strategies then implementing them and letting them run. If I then go another 6 months or so without finding anything profitable then I'll probably give it away.
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@nick-allan said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
This is a genuine question for everyone who's got the horse trading software? Is anyone out there making actual money on it? I've been testing for nearly four months now using about four or five strategies and hasn't been any that have been consistently profitable and most would have lost quite a bit of money (don’t worry I’m on low stakes). I see there is a lot of information in the chat about strategies that people have been tweaking and showing the backtesting which is great, but are the actually working in a live testing environment? I understand with any new strategy you need to test it for three to four months I totally get that, but sooner or later the software has to show some form of value would you not disagree? And if none of the strategies are profitable then where is the value? Even the pace lays which had a good month last month are having an absolutely dreadful month this month.
So I'm interested to see if anyone is actually making money and on what strategy they are because maybe I'm just looking at the wrong strategies? Another example will be this recent back the favourite on Saturdays, Mondays and Tuesdays, now granted I've only been testing it for two weeks now but it's on like minus 24 points which is some drawdown.
I hope this isn't perceived as negative because it's not meant to be I'm just genuinely interested if anyone is making money in a live environment and it doesn't matter even if their one pound stakes or 50p stakes have they got any strategies that are making some form of profit?
Yep I can honestly say I am.
Short odd lays 43 points since April. Took me a while to get the bot right and august walloped me for 20 points during the heatwave. Took a while to make that back but it’s there now and is hitting new bank highs at last.
A variation on martins beaten favourites is giving me a nice amount. Laying to a liability. Took a 9 point dive when I first started them at the back of august. Probably made a good 30 points since then.
Pace backs whilst madly swingy have me about 45 points up over 3 months. October was a test and a half. Still not sure if these are for me. Prefer laying strategies.
Couple of others showing promise. Biggest problem is replicating the software. But that’s just finding the right bot and learning the rules. If I start a strategy and cant get close (allowing a margin for error) I bin it. I have had a fair few non starters while testing live.
For higher odds always try liability rather than stake. Easier on the heart and the bank.
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This is a genuine question for everyone who's got the horse trading software? Is anyone out there making actual money on it? I've been testing for nearly four months now using about four or five strategies and hasn't been any that have been consistently profitable and most would have lost quite a bit of money (don’t worry I’m on low stakes). I see there is a lot of information in the chat about strategies that people have been tweaking and showing the backtesting which is great, but are the actually working in a live testing environment? I understand with any new strategy you need to test it for three to four months I totally get that, but sooner or later the software has to show some form of value would you not disagree? And if none of the strategies are profitable then where is the value? Even the pace lays which had a good month last month are having an absolutely dreadful month this month.
So I'm interested to see if anyone is actually making money and on what strategy they are because maybe I'm just looking at the wrong strategies? Another example will be this recent back the favourite on Saturdays, Mondays and Tuesdays, now granted I've only been testing it for two weeks now but it's on like minus 24 points which is some drawdown.
I hope this isn't perceived as negative because it's not meant to be I'm just genuinely interested if anyone is making money in a live environment and it doesn't matter even if their one pound stakes or 50p stakes have they got any strategies that are making some form of profit?
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@jonathan-busch 1.59
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@richard-morris Awesome, thanks for putting your time in to doing this, really appreciate that
Unfortunately, this isn't compatable:
What version are you running? I have v1.58.0
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@jonathan-busch Morning Jonathan
took a look at your file and made some edits. please see below.
I think one of the problems you had with not getting matched is that some markets were moving away from your bet in the time it took to enter. I've adjusted it to take 3rd best price and rely on BF best price system to get you matched.
Has your take SP rule been firing ok?
You occasionally get two bets matched due to your rule firing twice. the second bet sees no matched bets andfires giving you two bets in the marketGive this a go and let me know
cheers -
@richard-morris said in ***Horse Racing Shared Strategies Megathread + Downloads***:
@jonathan-busch can you link the baf file and ill take a look
I'll try - hopefully this has worked :backhand_index_pointing_down: