Food/Diet and training hobbies
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It appears I have neglected this forum a little bit lately. I will blame it on Martin's new forum hotness.
Keto lasted for about 12 days and following that I started a 3 day fast which, upon completion and a couple of meals consumed, say my bodyweight at 172lbs and a waistline of 31 inches.
Currently sensible eating for a month then I plan on repeating the keto and 3 day fast.
Following that a bulk programme until I hit 45 years old.
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@dan-mackinnon How very dare you! I would do no such thing as to 'forget' a birthday of someone close to me!
Haha jesus if I gained 181lbs I would have to put my belly on a trolly and wheel it around in front of me
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@matt-wood did you have to have a quick scan through your diary to make sure you didnāt āforgetā any other birthdays!
I first read that as you gained 181lbs. That would have been some party if so!
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Right after last weekend and birthday celebrations, monday saw the start of keto and back on the original plan.
There was a lot of sugar and alcohol consumed at the weekend so mondays weight was up to 181lbs. I expect this to largely be water and initially come down quickly. Roughly expecting to start a 3 day fast next week on monday or tuesday.
For me at least there will now be no crappy food or alcohol until my brother's birthday in the summer.
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I think for anyone who is looking to just be healthier then a lot of the things discussed arenāt massively relevant. If you eat under your required maintenance calories then you will lose weight, if you eat over then you will gain weight. That applies to anyone. When losing or gaining weight then maintaining muscle is the key to whether you lose/gain mainly muscle or fat. An ideal balance for the majority and a very solid starting point would be eating healthy (including a decent amount of protein with calories being either under or over maintenance depending on goals), drinking loads of water, a mixture of resistance training and cardio and plenty of rest/sleep. That will get you 99% of the way there
After that itās just down to personal preference about how you feel. Certain people train better fasted, some prefer training in the morning, some prefer to do intermittent fasting whilst others hate it and prefer smaller meals. Iād always suggest to nail the absolute basics then just play around with things to see how you react, but as is the case with measuring anything you should only change one thing at a time. Also, the best plan will always be the one you stick to! If you hate a type of exercise donāt do it just because itās supposed to be good, if you hate black coffee then have some milk, if you hate a certain food then donāt eat it because a certain top athlete does! Itās supposed to be a lifestyle choice and so many people try to hard to be so specific and it ends up failing fast so it has to be enjoyable. You will do much better by doing the easy 80% and being consistent than going for 99% for just a few weeks so make changes that are sustainable not for 7 or 30 days but ongoing
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@matt-wood Makes a lot of sense mate, I guess like most worthwhile things, it takes time to accomplish/figure out. Definitely have learned some things about my own physiological responses over a longer period, will keep at this and see how it goes
thanks to everyone for chipping in. -
this is one of the most frustrating things about the nutritional world. We would all love some concrete rules, and there are indeed some basic ones. The big thing though is all the studies in the world can only become a guideline for people since everybody is unique and therefore reactions to various things will also be unique.
Studies are very useful for giving us ideas about what should work best and what will trend as true for the majority of people. But like you say there is nothing that can beat trying something for yourself and REALLY trying to see how you react on a personal level.
Best real world example I ever saw of this was a client I had when I was younger who reacted different from all the expectations to carbs. Most people if they have a heavy carb meal will feel a little sluggish or even sleepy afterwards. This lad I was training, lucky effing s**t would eat some carbs, a muffin was his go to, and he would be absolutely bouncing off the walls.
Best advice I can give people is to follow the basic rules, get yourself and your diet on a consistent level playing field, basically be boring for 6months, then try the things out that you are curious about. See what effect they have on you.
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Yeah I think this is a tricky one, I had heard that even the sweetness of the sweetener could trigger a response but like you say, there is various opinions on this. Personally I take one sweetex in my black coffee and have still lost weight so I THINK its ok, I don't drink diet drinks really as I found the caffeine did make me pee quite a bit and like @Ryan I do now get a better sleep thanks to cutting them out and for myself, implementing a caffeine cut off of 10hrs before sleepytime.
Definitely a lot to be said I think for trying for yourself and seeing how you feel though, just wondered if there was indeed any concrete proof out there on it.
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Artificial sweeteners shouldn't break a fast as most of them have no calories. But there have been some recent studies that show that although they have no calories, they can still spike your insulin under some conditions. Specifically, if you consume a diet soft drink for example with a junk food or something that really spikes your blood sugar, the next time you consume a diet soft drink on its own, your body acts as if you just stuffed in a load of carbs again!
This is because of the anticipated reward and subsequent dopamine release. It's obviously terrible, because it means you get all the downside of having consumed a load of sugar without even having to consume it!
I think it varies from person to person though. I can take artificial sweeteners without any impact on blood sugar or ketosis.
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@dan-mackinnon said in Food/Diet and training hobbies:
@adam are yours water only then? I ended mine after 60 hours and the day before forgot to drink more water and felt rough the following day. That's never happened to me before.
Pretty much just water and black coffee, but the longest I've done is 24 hours. Fasting will dehydrate you as your body goes into "flush" mode so you definitely need to drink water!
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@dan-mackinnon Depends who you listen to
For me I think there is more to this one than the zero calorie sweetener thing. Personally I would not chew gum etc on a fast.
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@matt-wood this is probably a stupid question but when you chew gum does that do the same thing? Starts up your digestive system because it anticipates food?
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@angus-macleod Frustating as all hell this one. I don't think you will find any concrete answer on this, if you do please link me to it.
The argument about zero calories breaking your fast is about the processes the body chemistry has active or inactive.
Protein is the best example I can think of. We all are generally aware that protein is needed as the building blocks for muscle. There is more to it that this though. The simple act of consuming protein tells your body it is here. and this triggers things like the Mtor pathways which in turn tells your body to start growing (a bit of a simplification here). This happens before any of the protein is fully digested and put to work building muscle.So the thing with sweeteners is that it will trigger a process in your body to begin because you have taken in sugar (sweetners are sugar just chemically reduced in size and calories).
I don't really think its true. I have a sweetener in my coffee and a splash of skimmed milk (probably about 2 cals) and I have not really noticed it upsetting my fast.
Best thing you can do is if you understand how you feel when fasted, try doing it and see if you feel like you are no longer fasted. Maybe you start to feel a hunger twang, or as in my case, my eyesight is considerably better when I am fasted so if this were to go back to 'normal' then I know I would not be fasted any more.
Hope that ramble helps a little
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Right gents, in relation to the coffee convo and fasting, what about sweeteners? I have searched the tinterweb high and low for some kind of clarification but all I get are mixed responses. Some say that black coffee with sweeteners (like sweetex) will break a fast, while others say it doesn't.
I personally am confused how a zero calorie sweetener breaks a fast and triggers an insulin response as I thought the body stayed in a fasted state unless you ate/ broke your fast by consuming calories
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@matt-wood Not a dirty bulk as such, just trying to eat more and improving my choices with it. Iāve definitely seen a difference and my main signs will be based on the mirror, ie am I growing and am I getting too āsoftā round my torso! Iāve been more consistent with my workouts and so far itās working. Luckily Im very active with work so I can easily drop calories 25% for a couple of weeks and itāll quickly tighten things up. Over the year Iād like to be 1.5-2 stone heavier, without being completely fat
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@adam are yours water only then? I ended mine after 60 hours and the day before forgot to drink more water and felt rough the following day. That's never happened to me before.
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@dan-mackinnon said in Food/Diet and training hobbies:
Those that do fasts, do you allow yourself milk in coffee? I've heard it doesn't make too much of a difference
Personally no as I partly do it for the benefits of resting my digestive system, so I don't want to introduce any calories whatsoever.
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@keith-anderson Oh yes!!! Its why fasting works well for me, I get a lot done in the mornings.
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@ryan said in Food/Diet and training hobbies:
When I fast I usually have coffee black, the reason I drink coffee anyways was for the clarity it gives my mind and I have found when fasting I am more focused anyways.
For me milk slows me down anyways lol
That'll be your ADHD
