The BTC Horse Racing Thread

Caroline Middlebrook

Hey guys on the subject of bots... I have noticed something with BFBotManager when laying to a liability. Maybe @John-Folan will have some insight on this...

If the price available is lower than the price requested, it won't lay the full amount. So for example, say I am betting at a liability of £10 and I request a price of 6. A stake of £2.00 will produce a liability of £10. But let's say there's some money available at a lower price and I actually get matched at 5.5, now that same £2 only gives a £9 liability. So in this case, I still want £10 liability matched so I would want to stake a bit more - £2.22, but that doesn't happen.

I cannot figure out if this is the way BFBotManager works, or if indeed it's just the way Betfair itself works. But what's happening for me on the lay bets, is that if I get the price requested or a worse price, my full stake is matched, but if I get a better price then I less is matched! So I'm losing out on the higher value selections!

This problem has been bugging me for ages and I can't find a solution to it, and don't even know if there is one. Any ideas folks?

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@john-folan Yeah, I've found the same. It's ok for running one or two strategies that don't overlap but its crap for anything more than that unless you want to run multiple instances which can throw up issues with the BF API from accessing it too much.

Took me a few evenings to get everything up and running but the leap from Fairbot has been more than worth it. It's given me a bit of time to track and test new strategies too, without all the admin that comes with it.

I see a lot of great discussion on the fairbot thread so don't want to be counter-productive to anything those guys are doing but BF Bot Manager has the automation thing nailed.

John Folan

@daniel-mills said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@andy-lucy @John-Folan Pretty sure Fairbot doesn't - although it does let you use % of bank in your stake, it just seems like they never added anything in to let you define bank sizes. Not that I could find anyway.

That answers that then. Bet angel lets you use a percentage of bank as well, but you can't assign a bank to each strategy. BFbot is the only one that lets you do this. I find it so useful as I have different compounding rates and different lay types everywhere.

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@andy-lucy @John-Folan Pretty sure Fairbot doesn't - although it does let you use % of bank in your stake, it just seems like they never added anything in to let you define bank sizes. Not that I could find anyway.

John Folan

I shall be laying the favourites in these races 10 seconds before the start time subject to the following conditions:

Number of Runners 4-14.
Odds Between 1.8-2.4.
DSLR: 3-200.

Full strategy available here in the pinned post.
https://forum.betfairtradingcommunity.com/topic/3531/horse-racing-shared-strategies-megathread-downloads

John Folan

@phillip-young said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@john-folan I think that's where I need to be. I'm a relatively new member but think the way forward is to get a bot, load everything in, get the right pramaters in place and let it go, just look at the result each day.
How do I get to that place?

With a lot of anxiety, questioning and confusion. That’s how I did it anyway .

Seriously though you need to trial the bots to see what fits your trading style best. Read their forums for user’s opinions. Don’t trust reviews. That’s not the worst place to start.

phillip young

@john-folan I think that's where I need to be. I'm a relatively new member but think the way forward is to get a bot, load everything in, get the right pramaters in place and let it go, just look at the result each day.
How do I get to that place?

Andy Lucy

Wonder if fairbot does will look into that thanks

John Folan

@daniel-mills said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@andy-lucy no extra software, it's just a term for earmarking a set amount (bank) to a single strategy. Say you have £1000 to trade with and 5 strategies - you might opt to £200 bank for each strategy. That way, if if one goes on a bad streak, it can still recover and doesn't negatively impact the other strategies.

It's really easy to blow a bank if you're using the whole thing on multiple strats!

Bfbotmanager does this for you. You can assign separate banks to each strategy. At the moment Bet Angel(not sure about Fairbot) doesn’t do this. He’s got no intention of adding it either. I suggested it years ago.

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@andy-lucy no extra software, it's just a term for earmarking a set amount (bank) to a single strategy. Say you have £1000 to trade with and 5 strategies - you might opt to £200 bank for each strategy. That way, if if one goes on a bad streak, it can still recover and doesn't negatively impact the other strategies.

It's really easy to blow a bank if you're using the whole thing on multiple strats!

Andy Lucy

When u say different banks for different things etc does that mean u have to pay for multiple software or how’s that work? Just intrigued

Dan MacKinnon

@john-folan I do the same. I load up mine and leave it. Different banks for different approaches so it never clashes.

I fully accepted I’m never going to be as smart as the software so best to just get out of the way!

John Folan

This discussion made me chuckle. I don’t even look. I just load them all on and let the bots sort it out. I’ve got stuff laying to a liability, stuff laying to stake, stuff backing to stake. All at different compounding rates(so percentages of their individual banks. It all sorts itself out in the long term even if it can be counter productive on occasion. I like @Keith-Driscoll ’s approach though.

I’m just lazy

Andy Lucy

I mean back as dumping the lay sorry

Andy Lucy

It’s parallel world and zip in the later races that’s the ones that clash I think u mean as they are back c and d winner and pace lays. I will just lay then thanks for that info

Dan MacKinnon

@panagiotis said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@martin Hello.

Today we have an example with the same horse in two different strategies to back and Lay.

Ayr 16.15 the Horse Rowdy Rustler

Back the Fav 2,5-6
Pace Lays 3-11

I scheduled already the back strategy. To let it run or to avoid this race and horse?

I think you're reading the email wrong. They're not the same horse. The Back the Favourite is backing whichever horse is the favourite at the time. The Pace Lay is laying that particular horse. The two strategies can work together as you're still expecting one horse to win and the other to lose. The only way it doesn't work is if the pace lay IS the favourite

? Offline

@keith-driscoll said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

I've always used the rule to dump the lay selection, as they usually have the lowest ROI%. It works over the long term.

Make sense.

Thanks, mate

Keith Driscoll

@panagiotis said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@martin Hello.

Today we have an example with the same horse in two different strategies to back and Lay.

Ayr 16.15 the Horse Rowdy Rustler

Back the Fav 2,5-6
Pace Lays 3-11

I scheduled already the back strategy. To let it run or to avoid this race and horse?

I've always used the rule to dump the lay selection, as they usually have the lowest ROI%. It works over the long term.

? Offline

@martin Hello.

Today we have an example with the same horse in two different strategies to back and Lay.

Ayr 16.15 the Horse Rowdy Rustler

Back the Fav 2,5-6
Pace Lays 3-11

I scheduled already the back strategy. To let it run or to avoid this race and horse?

John Folan

I shall be laying the favourites in these races 10 seconds before the start time subject to the following conditions:

Number of Runners 4-14.
Odds Between 1.8-2.4.
DSLR: 3-200.

Full strategy available here in the pinned post.
https://forum.betfairtradingcommunity.com/topic/3531/horse-racing-shared-strategies-megathread-downloads