The road to full time
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@darri In my example I was using minimum stakes, and was treating it as a bet rather than a trade. Luckily, it wasn't a 14pt loss but it still quickly turns a good day into a bad one.
Valid advice though, something to always keep in mind regardless.
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@dan-mackinnon make sure if you ever try something new that you either paper trade or use min stakes. Sounds like you went into a wild situation here with a big chunk of bank and no exit. Please only ever use small portion of you bank so you never have too much liability. Bank management is one of the cores to trading long term. Easy at small level, so for example 14 points of a £100 bank is just £14, but imagine thats a £10k bank thats £1.4k!! Treat your small banks like you would a big one. Learn at the smaller stakes to be disciplined so that when you reach the big time nothing needs to change.
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@darri great post about the cricket trading. You are right that momentum is key. I enjoy cricket so thought I'd dabble with the England test. At one stage I ended up on the wrong end of a 14 point swing! I had your golden rule ringing in my ears - master one strategy at a time.
Just a warning for anyone looking to throw themselves into horse racing when the software comes out. That's another market that has huge swings.
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Both are also available for free as audiobooks on Ground Sounds Podcasts I have listened to them both in the last two weeks and thought both were excellent.
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Just finished reading atomic habits. Saw ali abdaal do a youtube video on it, now read it and quite frankly i think its one of those books people have to read, so added to my list of recommended. Thats now 2 on the list:
subtle art of not giving a f*ck
atomic habitsMost books i read at some point in them start to distance themselves from me. They dont resonate as much and go off on tangents iv not yet experienced or i feel i have a good handle on. Atomic habits has some moments in it that i feel like that but only with trading, not the rest of my life. For examples systems instead of targets. Got that nailed with trading, but rest of my life all i do is set targets and then i either reach then and feel lost after or procrastinate hoping they will come. Really recommend this book, not only for the easy link to trading but one for the people who are after change.
Read this REVIEW or watch ali abdaals video on atomic habits, really interesting read, so many takeaways from it
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Thought this test match would be a good way for me to explain my approach to trading them. I trade quite differently to what the norm is on the cricket thread. While we do similar trades i tend to be bullish on selective ones rather than accruing p/l throughout the test. This is just how I prefer to trade. So people know i wait until day 3 before i get involved in tests. Think of it like a 2nd half entry football game or after the 1st set in tennis, im supplied with data of whats happening inplay before i make any assumptions of how i trade this. This also goes back to my cores to trading which is be a specialist in a small area of the market and do it better than others. In football for me thats been Late goals but im slowly improving with a data only approach over time. So for cricket in tests im only focussing on the final 3 days. Im typically only looking for 1 main trade. Only a few tests have i actually done more than 1. This allows me to be in a trade for a long period so im not knee jerking based on a couple wickets or boundaries. Heres the thing if you trade erratically and with volume then your increasing your chances of being wrong and therefore cutting p/l. Rarely are you gonna call everything right. By being focussed on one entry you can snipe the best opportunity.
This test presented such an opportunity. India had a deficit to catch up in their 2nd innings. At this stage Eng well on top. Day one and two had been fun and exciting with wickets falling in clumps. Everyone expected day 3 to follow suit and have a quick test. I always wait and watch to see if anything new happens, momentum in cricket is huge. India openers managed to get to the milestone i was after, which was they managed to chase down the deficit runs to be level in the game. With England at 2.46, 2 set batsmen and the ball doing nothing this was all about momentum. Englands strength is pace bowlers and without any movement its a long game. Yes wickets fell while i held onto the lay but the price never dipped below my entry. This indicated to me i was in a great position and kept holding on. Eventually England's price sky rocketed up to 8s and i cashed out.
We go into day 5 with england needing to break history to win from here. If you see this trade from a logical stand point rather than emotional it was a pretty common sense trade. It had little risk due to conditions for bowlers/set batsmen, it played against the strengths of the england attack, it was a good price as it never really fell below it again in their innings. Furthermore the lay of eng also included the draw, so if india took an age to build a declarable score then id also have that on my side. However i didnt need that as they rocketed along at a healthy rate and managed to bag a winning trade. I now sit purely as a fan for day 5 hoping for a close game.
With cricket remember its easy to have an opinion or act on impulse that something might develop. Every wicket presents a new angle etc. But if you play for a position in the game then you can ride out the waves. Value is everything. I personally dont see value in changing my position every so often. Cricket is based on opinions and thats why i think its a great sport to trade, but also a dangerous one for overtrading and cutting p/l.
Thought it would be interesting to show how i play these, its different to the volume others are trading on the cricket thread so thought id share my approach, my approach isnt superior to anything else out there but i feel its controlled and well thought out. Now i dont do research on cricket because im only ever trading the biggest games, so have the biggest names playing so i understand the strengths and weaknesses of teams. This approach is something im still improving and its been a fantastic summer for me in building confidence in it. Looking forward to this next period packed with cricket and the t20 strategy coming back which ill discuss again when its back.
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@darri Thanks Darri, I may very well take you up on that offer in the future once Im looking to add a second strategy
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@matt-wood Summer leagues just needed time to develop. So the previous criteria i was using before testing was fine and I just made a mistake in halting it. The testing was relaxing all the criteria and seeing for new ways bt it wasnt needed. Was only because I hadnt tested it for summer leagues before and they started dodgy but over time they are now flying again. So no need to further test. If you want me to build a strategy (has to be set and forget) then ill happily do a case study on here for it. Not SHG/LTD but any other market.
Im now in a position where i dont really want to add strategies to my portfolio. I have a strategy in the match odds market and one in the overs markets. Really those are the 2 best liquid markets and therefore cant add without adding liability. Its a balanced portfolio. Iv been toying about in background with some ideas but each of those ideas is in the same markets, sometimes same games so im just avoiding that. These are the 2 going forward.
Diversification is good for long term, but the way i trade i like to be focussed on 1-2 things and manage the liability and get most out of strats.
Im happy to work with you in background to build something.
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@matt-wood it’s an excellent point you make and a line that will get overlooked. It’s very interesting so see when the pro guys post on the football forum to ask the WHY? and dissect it as opposed to “oooooo I better jump on this!!”
It’s one of the great learning curves despite what the sport is to realise what it is that sets the pro traders apart and how they can be learnt from.
It definitely is a great part of the educational side of trading. I wish when I first started instead of being so focused on P-L I was totally focused on WHY. -
@darri said in The road to full time:
Use the forum as a tool rather than a tipping platform
Darri puts out some top posts on here that I for one have certainly learned a lot from. The line above from his recent post might get skipped over by a lot of people as not so important.
I can honestly say this line is super important. The forum has been my greatest place for learning and advancing my trading abilities. I started off using it as a tipping service, even though I was not doing it deliberately. Over the last 6 months I have 'let go' of the fomo and the idea that I should follow the pro traders posts. Instead I have been following them and trying to understand WHY they are doing what they do. This has helped me build my own system that I understand inside out. Combine this with the things Darri has recently posted about, focusing on the process rather than the outcome, and I have made a good deal of personal progress.
A bit of a ramble there, sorry,
. Keep the line from Darri in mind at all times, the forum is an amazing tool to help us all and the people on here are always trying to help one another. Treat it that way, ask questions and engage with people to increase your understanding. -
@martin-walker said in The road to full time:
Not making mistakes is huge, a month is a long time and its so easy to make many mistakes over it.
1 mistake a week seems low but can easily take all your profit from a good strategy
I am trying to do the same only stick to trades on my plans nothing else. I am just trying to remember less is more
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Not making mistakes is huge, a month is a long time and its so easy to make many mistakes over it.
1 mistake a week seems low but can easily take all your profit from a good strategy
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@oliver-preen for my trading ill likely reach 10k between February-April, thats not me setting it for that, ill not be upset if i dont make that, but based on how my strategies are lining up thats the aim.
For a beginner id forget about how long it would take. Just work on the progress. Like i said in the post a great current example is @Matt-Wood and what he said on his blog. His whole aim for 1 month was to just avoid mistakes. He knew that as long as he avoided mistakes his strategy would work for itself and profit. But best thing to do seeing as you are a new member is take the next 2 weeks off from trading during this int break and read all the blogs and content on this forum. My one shows my journey over the past 2 years so might be a long read but i value some of my posts and still stick to them. The btc ones are great too and have videos to back it up. Id say dont try tackle trading in one whole swoop, target small things to start with. The best starting point for a beginner is paper trade and find a strategy they like. From there the info on this forum will help. Always ask questions aswell! Use the forum as a tool rather than a tipping platform, yes some of us post our trades but the long term gains from btc is learning to trade your own way. It can be a crazy jungle of topics, but i believe that if you cut it down to simple tasks to master each month youd become a good trader within the year. Happy to help you along the way.
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@darri Hey, new to BTC and love this post, you’re so right about mindset, and it interesting you came into this as a troubled gambler. Well done on fixing your mentality
How long do you anticipate it to take roughly to build up to the 10k target? -
Its so interesting to always see how others do on here in their trading journey. Be that from blogs or just general posts on the threads. The one thing i always see be the biggest factor is mindset. I cant tell you the amount of people iv seen and spoke to on here who now arent. When i first joined to now there has been such a high turnover of those who post. Id say a some point each of them had a good strategy but they got taken by poor mindset, which if we dont work on will hurt us. Same can be said about those who go at this for ages, failing to nail a strategy, its mindset. The funny thing is the ones that are still good now were also the ones who were good then. Consistency is born from a solid mindset approach, that and iv openly said this numerous times is my biggest takeaway from using this forum. I truly believe anyone can create or find a good strategy there are hundreds of small tweaks someone can do to a SHG that will provide a profit. The hardest part is managing it.
There are so many topics in mindset i could do a typical massive post, but really i think its a constant battle that you need to work on small things at a time rather than blast away at such a huge issue. The best ways iv found with anything to do with trading is keep everything you do simple. Simple staking, simple routine, simple trades etc. This brings about a way of trading that is repeatable, consistent and mentally keeps you easy to understand why you had a good or bad day. Those with complex scenarios or complex entries typically are the ones who struggle, that doesnt mean their strat isnt good, but its adding such complexity that over time is hard to maintain control. The best always have such ease with trading and its always simple strats and almost common sense games. There are numerous tricks to get into a good simple mindset for anything in trading. Loads on this forum and hopefully a few people like on this blog.
Remember i came into this as a troubled gambler i was in zero state to make this work mentally. My discipline was poor and my fomo was a joke. I turned a corner when i started to work on small steps. Getting good at one thing before moving to next, if you read this from the start you can see that progression, in fact it took me a while. Using tricks like turning everything off once id placed my trades to avoid fomo trades. Over time you build habits and confidence in your trading that these things are no longer needed. As you improve so does your mindset because you know the process needed to win. Its not about big gains, its about the consistency in your approach. @Matt-Wood has just had a terrific month making zero mistakes. Whats the key lesson here for any beginner or anyone who has a good strategy tested, if you focus only on making sure you dont make mistakes, control your emotions and avoid fomo, then your strategies should take care of themselves. For matt it wasnt about the size of the gain, he had losses in that run too, the only thing he cared about was his mindset and his control of his trades. He has a simple yet effective way of trading and yep 1 strategy. The thing i always talk about. From here he now has a solid base to work from. He knows that as long as he avoids mistakes and fomo trades he will bank profit, while still early days these are good signs and if he continues in this way of thinking for the next few months with same results, his mindset will always become ever more solid that yes these do work if i manage them well. Now he can continue and in doing so build data on other ventures too. Dont just think you need to learn from pros see how people at all levels are doing. Their process might resonate better.
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@matt-wood if you can be of the mindset that your building passive income with money you can afford to lose thats such a healthy way to go about this. Some might have wondered this but iv not added anymore money to the betfair bank. Iv only invested £1k ill never add to it. If i did id start to get financially and emotionally attached. Betfair makes its own money, from it im not attached to it and when it comes to then diversifying i can without caring too much. The less attached you are the better and it should only ever be money you dont need/rely on. Im building a passive income that works for itself, anything i do outside of this funnel has no impact on my trading bank. I see people and i did in past invest a lot into this and care too much. Its amazing what compounding does with a small amount of money there really is no rush. Anyway lets focus on here and now. Look to talk more about this at 10k as thats when my plans come into place.
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@darri Great post Darri I like the plan that you have and knowing exactly where you want to be by the time your 40. I'm in my early 50's and wish I'd done that but its never too late, the thought of working into my 70's which is what the talk is now with Pensions as they are fills me with dread to be honest.
Looking forward to see how else you use Betfair for PAssive Income building at some point in the future when the time is right for you.
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