The BTC Horse Racing Thread

Richard Latimer

@martin-futter said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer keep us updated on that!

I will for sure. Think it will need a similar sort of race criteria but perhaps not so restricted. Same, distance for sure. Maybe don't need quite as many runners and timeform favourite can be shorter than 4.0 I think. As long as I get a good price laying tf favourite (thinking 2.50 BSP lowest if I want to lay at 2.02 which was how I experimented yesterday).

Obv if I match none of them then it's no loss so no big deal.

I remember the experiment of laying tf favourite went ok so maybe laying all 3 at lower in running prices will fare just as well if not better.

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@charles-cartwright

Yes mate I agree, think it could be back soon aswell, be interesting on early ltf in England as if behind closed doors it will take away the live punters edge won’t it? They will have same pics as us,so decisions could be more rash, which might help us? Keep us up to date with the project mate, sounds good

Dan

Martin

@richard-latimer keep us updated on that!

Richard Latimer

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I try and use the Timeform 1,2,3, the volume traded on the horse, the pace evaluations on BetAmerica and running preference for the horse (I.e. front runner) to plan my back to lays on the US races. Doing not too badly.

I'm not talking about backing at all. Just laying part of the field. The part most likely to come in strong I guess. There will be many winner/losers but also many races where perhaps a couple get matched and the winner doesn't.

Gotcha. That would be a tricky one. I wonder if using the pace and running style might give an indication on how the odds may go in running.

Quite possibly. Why I said winning warlock though is you can see all their recent in running prices and they have a rating by the best.

I decided to try the timeform thing out tonight as so many LTF getting ruled out at the last minute.

Worked really well and missed out on a bumper one by a photo finish in the last race but still broken even there. About 2pts clear from laying timeform 1,2,3 where no really short priced fav. Lowest BSP was just under 3.0. Last race fav was lower than that but it wasn't one of the timeform 3.

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@dan-erridge

First time I have done this. Wasted hours in the past trying to write macros and sort data will mixed success.

Found a guy who will generate the macro I need for $125. Probably a little over the odds but wanted someone who I can directly communicate with and hopefully rely on.

Once I get it I can literally have the entire ProForm database available for analysis.

Really sick of messing about with the garbage US racing on at the moment and can't wait for the real stuff to come back.

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@charles-cartwright

Hi mate, good idea about the developer, i have thought about using someone to write what i require, how much did he charge mate, if you dont mind me asking? As you say. it saves loads of time, no errors and gives you what you want

Dan

Richard Latimer

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I try and use the Timeform 1,2,3, the volume traded on the horse, the pace evaluations on BetAmerica and running preference for the horse (I.e. front runner) to plan my back to lays on the US races. Doing not too badly.

I'm not talking about backing at all. Just laying part of the field. The part most likely to come in strong I guess. There will be many winner/losers but also many races where perhaps a couple get matched and the winner doesn't.

Gotcha. That would be a tricky one. I wonder if using the pace and running style might give an indication on how the odds may go in running.

Quite possibly. Why I said winning warlock though is you can see all their recent in running prices and they have a rating by the best.

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@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I try and use the Timeform 1,2,3, the volume traded on the horse, the pace evaluations on BetAmerica and running preference for the horse (I.e. front runner) to plan my back to lays on the US races. Doing not too badly.

I'm not talking about backing at all. Just laying part of the field. The part most likely to come in strong I guess. There will be many winner/losers but also many races where perhaps a couple get matched and the winner doesn't.

Gotcha. That would be a tricky one. I wonder if using the pace and running style might give an indication on how the odds may go in running.

Richard Latimer

Martin's email says 19:15 & 21:45 are potentials today but it looks like 22:15 may qualify as well from what I can see.

@Martin-Futter?

james everard

Bored and plenty of time on my hands and trying to learn excel, I have downloaded the attached data from USA win markets for horseracing from the period of the 22nd of April to the 27th April. It won't help with the ltf strategy but may help with any other ideas strategies we could get our heads around.

0_1588001657854_USAHORSERACINGDATA.xlsx

Richard Latimer

@keith-dow said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I try and use the Timeform 1,2,3, the volume traded on the horse, the pace evaluations on BetAmerica and running preference for the horse (I.e. front runner) to plan my back to lays on the US races. Doing not too badly.

I'm not talking about backing at all. Just laying part of the field. The part most likely to come in strong I guess. There will be many winner/losers but also many races where perhaps a couple get matched and the winner doesn't.

? Offline

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I try and use the Timeform 1,2,3, the volume traded on the horse, the pace evaluations on BetAmerica and running preference for the horse (I.e. front runner) to plan my back to lays on the US races. Doing not too badly.

Richard Latimer

@richard-latimer said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

I should add, was thinking min 3.0 BSP for any of these. Perhaps 3.5

Richard Latimer

When UK racing is back I was wondering about maybe using the in running ratings on winning warlock to try and not just lay the entire field but perhaps a part of the field.

Do you reckon something like this could work?

There's also timeform 1,2,3 on betfair for all the U.S. races at the moment so considered looking at how all of these do? Again could they all be laid in running? How often does one of the 3 win, how often do they shorten in price?

Would still only look at the same race distances for the timeform 1,2,3

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@charles-cartwright said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@dan-erridge said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@charles-cartwright
Sounds great mate, will look forward to what you find out.Defo be course bias imo aswell.Also maybe a going bias as on heavy ground etc they get strung out earlier

Dan

Have to be careful not to overfit the data though. I really want to see which are the most profitable entry points and courses to avoid. Will divide by type of race though and class because I already suspect that high grade handicaps or group races are going to be the best and low grade handicaps the worst. Have already figured out that sprints are useless because most horses that get below about 1.8 or 1.7 actually do go and win and late closers don't shorten much unless they actually are going to win the race which doesn't happen all that often.....of course we always remember them when we are on the one that gets caught right at the line.

If I can get this to work well then I will do NH racing as well.

Sounds great... I don't have access to the data myself but if I can help with any of the crunching then please let me know.

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@dan-erridge said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@charles-cartwright
Sounds great mate, will look forward to what you find out.Defo be course bias imo aswell.Also maybe a going bias as on heavy ground etc they get strung out earlier

Dan

Have to be careful not to overfit the data though. I really want to see which are the most profitable entry points and courses to avoid. Will divide by type of race though and class because I already suspect that high grade handicaps or group races are going to be the best and low grade handicaps the worst. Have already figured out that sprints are useless because most horses that get below about 1.8 or 1.7 actually do go and win and late closers don't shorten much unless they actually are going to win the race which doesn't happen all that often.....of course we always remember them when we are on the one that gets caught right at the line.

If I can get this to work well then I will do NH racing as well.

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@charles-cartwright said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

So I think I need to look at this LTF thing properly for when real racing comes back.

I am going to pull data from ProForm which has the most accurate LIR data and compile stats for the past three complete flat seasons. Will take me a while because the data isn't put together for the analysis we need but when it is complete will post it.

My guess is that there will be a course bias and probably a class bias and if we can find those then we can weed out the unprofitable stuff and give this a go when racing comes back hopefully soon.

Will share what I find on here once it is complete.

Decided to pay an Excel VBA developer to write a script so that I can do this much faster than me trying to write a series of poorly working macros. Once I get that I can load the entire ProForm database and run any number of queries on this.

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@charles-cartwright
Sounds great mate, will look forward to what you find out.Defo be course bias imo aswell.Also maybe a going bias as on heavy ground etc they get strung out earlier

Dan

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So I think I need to look at this LTF thing properly for when real racing comes back.

I am going to pull data from ProForm which has the most accurate LIR data and compile stats for the past three complete flat seasons. Will take me a while because the data isn't put together for the analysis we need but when it is complete will post it.

My guess is that there will be a course bias and probably a class bias and if we can find those then we can weed out the unprofitable stuff and give this a go when racing comes back hopefully soon.

Will share what I find on here once it is complete.

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@charles-cartwright said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

@dan-erridge said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:

https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/prices

There it is guys, some people all replying on Twitter saying it's great, like I say not looked myself

Well played sir! Bit of work to turn it into something usable but frankly all most of us have these days is time!!!

Been looking at this and unfortunately its not that great for LTF data. It clearly does not always accurately reflect the LIR price in a lot of these races. I have not been able to go back and see in those races where I traded in at 1.76 and had 2 horses match how low I could have gone and still had the winning lay kick in.

Really frustrating!!!!