Question About BSP Place Markets
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Hi All,
I was wondering if any experts could help - I'm looking at the 'BSP place' price which is displayed at BTC in the strategy builder under Betting Strategy (Customise Results - Individual Trades Columns).
What does this price relate to? It just says 'Place BSP'. But Betfair doesn't have a single place section? Aside from the win, it has 'each way' (which includes the win, so definitely isn't this one) or 'top 3', 'top 2' or 'top 4'.My assumption was it was top 3. However, slightly unrelated, I then see several selections getting a 'X' for being 'placed' (coming 3rd in a 5 runner race), but in a 3 place bet, it would still count as placed. I know these are different columns, but it has made me question what prices are pulled into the BSP Place column?
Can anyone help?
Many thanks, Michael
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@Adam said in Question About BSP Place Markets:
@Michael-Chalk We get the place prices in a file from Betfair and the event name is still listed as "To Be Placed". BF don't seem to offer this market as a single entity any more on the website.
I think the price is taken from the TBP market with the same number of places as the Each Way market.
Nice and simple
Betfair don't make life easy for you do they!
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Bet Angel has a "To be placed" market in guardian - that is the one that you need.
Can always run a test as well to make sure the values correlate. -
It does seem they've changed it on the front end of the website now, I am sure that it actually used to be called "To be Placed" didn't it!?
IN any case on the backend it should still be labelled as such. So Bet Angel should have visibilty of this.
In BFBM for example you can still select the PLACE market:
ANd that will automatically know what place market is the official one BF will use (and therefore the one that BTC prices correlate with)
I am sure Bet Angel will have something similar, maybe give their support a message to find out?
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@Michael-Chalk We get the place prices in a file from Betfair and the event name is still listed as "To Be Placed". BF don't seem to offer this market as a single entity any more on the website.
I think the price is taken from the TBP market with the same number of places as the Each Way market.
Nice and simple
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@Kevin-Pepper @Andrew-Gray
Thank you both for your help. My only final query then is - how/ where do I find the 'to be placed' market that the 'BSP place' column in BTC relates to? I attach a screenshot of a Betfair horse race from this evening. I've hunted high and low to find out where the to be placed market is.I use bet angel for ensuring multiple bets get placed at precisely the second that the back-testing has them. Using BSP will ensure I'll never have problems with price descrepancies between the bet angel price and the BTC back-testing recorded price. But I need to make sure I am backing or laying on the same market that BTC records.
Please find below a screenshot from Betfair - I hope it doesn't seem stupid or insulting, but I can't (and I've spent all day looking/ researching) find a 'to be placed' market?
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@Michael-Chalk
The BSP place prices will relate to the Betfair 'To be placed' market which is present for all races with 5 or more original race entries. As Andrew says, the number of potential place winners in that market will vary depending on the Win market number of entries and race type. -
Yea exactly so as Martin says (I will remove the e/w part in case that is what is causing confusion)
1-4 Runners – No place market
5-7 Runners – 2 places
8+ Runners in a non-handicap – 3 places
12-15 Runners in a handicap – 3 places
16+ Runners in a handicap – 4 placesThese markets will be used regardless of how many non runners there are, so you just need to check the overall amount of original runners in each race to work out the place market to use, as per the above logic
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@Andrew-Gray Hi Andrew,
Thank you for taking the time to help.I have been doing some back-testing on BTC by taking the 'BSP Place' and running alongside the Place 'Yes/No' column in a separate spreadsheet. It's very time-consuming, but I prefer finding my own angles on races.
My worry is I can't back any future selections if I don't find out which market the 'BSP Place' price relates to.
On any UK Betfair race, the market options are - a)'Win' b)'Each Way' (win plus place) c) 'Top 3 finish' d) 'Top 2 finish' e) 'Top 4 finish'. One of those must be feeding BTC's 'BSP Place'. I would assume it is the top 3 finish market, but I know what assumptions make! (bankrupt punters) lol
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@Michael-Chalk It is the standard places as Martin says.
If any horses drop out then Betfair do not change the standard place market, so you can get 3 places as the standard place market on 6 or 7 final runner races for example.
So I am guessing it gets set in stone when market is first formed according to the number of intitial runners.
Maybe you can use the total number of runners + non runners to work it out then when backtesting your strategy.
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@Martin Hi Martin, Thank you for responding. That would make prefect sense from the perspective of the column for whether the horse placed or not (denoted by a tick or cross).
But I would assume the 'BSP Place' is reading from just one market on Betfair - unless it is dynamic enough to actively switch markets as horses drop out (that would be very clever albeit very difficult to follow/ replicate with any pre-race betting strategy).
The only options then would be the 2-place, 3-place or 4 place markets. These are available as single bets on every race as Betfair doesn't offer a single 'place' bet that alters according to race entrants. Based on the avg price, 'BSP Place' definitely isn't reading the Betfair 'each way' market either as that includes the win portion (much like a traditional bookies' bet), so is much higher. It must therefore either be switching between betfair 2/3 or 4 place markets or is locked on to one (most logically the 3-place market).
I'm just starting to look at building a strategy around the betfair place market, but obviously can't hope to replicate historical success, if I'm not sure which market that comes from. Hopefully @Adam will know more.
Thank you again,
Michael
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@Michael-Chalk I'll tag @Adam for full clarification but I assume it is the official place numbers as per the race rules.
Each-way terms simplified
1-4 Runners – Win Only
5-7 Runners – 1/4 of the odds for the first two places
8+ Runners in a non-handicap – 1/5 of the odds for the first three places
12-15 Runners in a handicap – 1/4 of the odds for the first three places
16+ Runners in a handicap – 1/4 of the odds for the first four places
