The BTC Horse Racing Thread
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@john-folan
Damn. That compromise with the different automation things has reared its head again. This strategy uses an open window for bet placement. About 2/3ds of the bets are placed inplay. I had issues with fairbot using the old api that i dont have now i swapped it to use the streaming api. If i went to bfbotmanager i would get more accurate representation regarding the selections but would likely get a lot more missed entries.I will keep comparing the day to day actual vs backtest for the time being (though its expensive software if its not actually working to make you money so dont want to do that too long). In theory i guess the races it goes in my favour should match the ones it doesnt but the point of me using this is that i dont have the 'might', 'should', 'i guess' etc.
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@jonathan-jones I can see that. I had a lot of this with Proform. In a sense a lot of the ranks won’t be known until just before or just after the off. I also had an issue with the number of qualifiers rule. Same thing as you really. Except I was doing an inrunning thing and it didn’t know the max number of qualifiers in a race until after it had finished would be 1. Some things unfortunately will happen like that. It’s a bit like predicted going and actual going sometimes being different. I just keep an eye on that during the day. I might suggest Adam adds a separate filter for each of those to solve the problem there.
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@john-folan
That sort of thing would be ideal. Might need to look at that. In yesterdays races it worked to my benefit but the size of the difference (80% near enough) has made me worry. -
@jonathan-jones that’s an Adam question I think. Although if you are running Bfbotmanager you can filter by forecast rank in the filter by detailed information at the time of the bet being placed as per the screenshots below. So in theory you wouldn’t need to load your selections in as your filters in Bfbotmanager should pick the same ones as the software does.(with the odd exception caused by very late non runners)
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@john-folan said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@jonathan-jones I don’t think the forecast price changes but I’m guessing rank will based on non runners?
That is possible and may be what happened here. There was a non runner and that was one of the ranked selections so the backtester traded an alternative horse.
Thats a problem then if any of the 'rank' things are not fixed. You cant use something in a filter if that thing can change after you would of placed your bet. It makes the entire thing unreliable. If you cant look at the backtest and say thats what would of happened if i traded that filter then thats a problem.
As a possible mitigation when does the software list the runners on its filters? does it update throughout the day or just get the list the day before?
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@john-folan said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@adam said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@stephen-oleary said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@adam Do i sense in 12 months time you and BTC will have there own trading/automated software!!!! BTC could be running the trading scene in all aspects one day
Ryan's keen! I'm nervous about being responsible for people's actual money!
I don’t reckon you need to. Just do a deal with someone and let them have the responsibility and the aggro. Football/Horse and Tennis software with backtesting will be enough anyway. What’s that expression? Jack of All Trades(geddit?
) master of none.I agree with John, there’s no need to but from a different angle, dealing with over people’s money is a whole different ball game.
For those who played poker 10 years or so ago there was massive issues and people lost loads of money as sites full tilt in particular didn’t segregate there money from customers. Regulations have tightened up significantly since then
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@jonathan-jones I don’t think the forecast price changes but I’m guessing rank will based on non runners?
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Can i ask EXACLTY what time the forecast price and forecast price rank are set and if its possible for them to change at any point? I have a strategy based on laying these and its soo simple there really shouldnt be any significant difference betwen actual results and backtest results (apart from some pricing differences), but comparing yesterdays actual to what the backtest says happened yesterday is throwing up some big differences in horses traded. Every day has had differences.
I have also just checked the selections i downloaded yesterday (i used the upcoming qualifiers on the actual strategy rather than the notification) and there are differences. The backtest is trading differtent hoeses to the ones the filter told me about yesterday.
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@adam said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@stephen-oleary said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@adam Do i sense in 12 months time you and BTC will have there own trading/automated software!!!! BTC could be running the trading scene in all aspects one day
Ryan's keen! I'm nervous about being responsible for people's actual money!
I don’t reckon you need to. Just do a deal with someone and let them have the responsibility and the aggro. Football/Horse and Tennis software with backtesting will be enough anyway. What’s that expression? Jack of All Trades(geddit?
) master of none. -
@ian-parry said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@adam said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
Hard for me to say as I use my own code for anything automated. If I was going to use something commercial though, I'd probably go for BetAngel.
Do you run trading bots in your own code? I use my own code for betting strategies and non time critical trading strategies.
Yes, I'm usually monitoring a few thousand markets at a time... tbh it's probably quicker than BetAngel, but purely because the UI is just console output as I didn't have to bother making it pretty for myself!
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@stephen-oleary said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@adam Do i sense in 12 months time you and BTC will have there own trading/automated software!!!! BTC could be running the trading scene in all aspects one day
Ryan's keen! I'm nervous about being responsible for people's actual money!
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@adam said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
Hard for me to say as I use my own code for anything automated. If I was going to use something commercial though, I'd probably go for BetAngel.
Do you run trading bots in your own code? I use my own code for betting strategies and non time critical trading strategies. But I can't get anything like the speed BetAngel does at cycling through markets so I still use BetAngel for anything time critical.
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@adam Do i sense in 12 months time you and BTC will have there own trading/automated software!!!! BTC could be running the trading scene in all aspects one day
Im Bet angel there software is by far the best and so much tutorials to help you through it all.
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@keith-driscoll said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@nick-allan said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@john-folan ive used bet angel and BFBM and id say BFBM customer service is far superior, i really struggled to get any question answer with betangel and that why i changed but BA is better i have to say
Best to use the forum for questions with BA.
That’s what I used to do. Dallas was usually quick to respond. I do that on Bfbot as well and it’s the same.
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@nick-allan said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@john-folan ive used bet angel and BFBM and id say BFBM customer service is far superior, i really struggled to get any question answer with betangel and that why i changed but BA is better i have to say
Best to use the forum for questions with BA.
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@john-folan ive used bet angel and BFBM and id say BFBM customer service is far superior, i really struggled to get any question answer with betangel and that why i changed but BA is better i have to say
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@martin said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@kevin-pepper also I'm sure if he knows the feedback he will work on it like we do with ours, it's hard to know this stuff unless someone tells you what is wrong sometimes.
I know a couple of people who use fairbot. I think all of them have limitations.
Bfbot I find simple and can build a bot to do what I need in a few minutes, plus I like the separate banks per strategy and profit and loss exports. Plus I can easily import what your BTC software exports. It’s limitations are it uses the old api so is useless for scalping and inrunning bots
Bet Angel is super fast so great for scalping and Inplay. Plus you can manual trade and bot trade off of it. Dallas (who is Peter Webb, I think he fancies himself as JR) is really helpful. Limitations are it’s a bit over complicated and you have to have subs that provide scores etc or you have to put in price changes to guess. But silly really unless that’s changed. Oh and Peter Webb’s videos, mainly the bellboy one
.Fairbot. I think it’s relatively simple to use and he will build bots for you if you tell him what you want. Not really sure on the limitations but there’s been some good posts in here the last few days on what it does and doesn’t do.
All have some good, all have some bad. Might be worth getting a fairbot thread and a Bet Angel thread to go along the Bfbot one I started? I’m sure there are some nice people in here who wouldn’t mind doing that.
One thing I will say is they like BTC all have good customer service and are happy to help/add features if they provide value. They also all I think offer free trials.
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@kevin-pepper also I'm sure if he knows the feedback he will work on it like we do with ours, it's hard to know this stuff unless someone tells you what is wrong sometimes.
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@jonathan-jones said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@darryll said in The BTC Horse Racing Thread:
@jonathan-jones I'm interested to hear your findings so please do report back.
Used the streaming api in fairbot yesterday. Its significantly faster. Only had one missed stoploss. I had increased the distance between trigger and placement but these were being hit consistently at the better odds so i guess thats a win.
Its not all good news though. Fairbot is buggy as hell using it. The trades went well but other stuff is totally broken. With the old api as soon as a race is 'closed' the watch window updates. With the streaming api ists hours or sometimes never. You can navigatge to a closed race from the wndow and it will update but as soon as you look at another race its gone again. Closed races dont always say the winners or ltp either. Its a proper mess
Hi
Have you raised the issues with Sergey at Fairbot? He's normally pretty responsive so would be good to get his take on your findings.
Cheers
Kevin
